Von der Bronx an den Supreme Court | Prof. Samuel Estreicher (#02)

00:00:00: Today's guest was born in a displaced persons camp, Germany.

00:00:03: The son of two Holocaust survivors He grew up on the Bronx.

00:00:07: No elevator no air conditioning...the only way up is education.

00:00:13: After Columbia Cornell he became law clerk at Supreme Court for Justice Lewis Powell A man who had made history himself

00:00:30: Very amazing.

00:00:30: Must be kidding!

00:00:31: Since nineteen seventy nine, he has taught at NYU School of Law.

00:00:35: He is testified before Congress and met heads-of state up close

00:00:40: Bill Clinton looks in your eyes... ...he gives you fifty seconds of undivided attention.

00:00:45: I mean trust me even your own mother hasn't given you Fifty Seconds Of Undivided Attention.

00:00:49: Ten years later he remembers everything was said

00:00:52: And on today's most controversial issues..

00:00:54: ..he had

00:00:54: strong opinions about his own.

00:00:56: I think they have to bring back Manufacturing, don't allow the Chinese cars to destroy their markets because you are precision manufacturers in

00:01:04: world.

00:01:04: Do we still have this image?

00:01:06: Yes I think so keep it's really important

00:01:09: Professor Samuel Estreicher.

00:01:13: Hello everybody on my podcast On a new episode.

00:01:17: today i'm here with professor Samuel Estreica of New York University School Of Law.

00:01:22: Hi Sam Lo Daniel Thanks for being and giving me your honor.

00:01:28: My

00:01:28: honor as well.

00:01:28: thankyou

00:01:29: Sam Aströger and I go way back.

00:01:32: He used to be my law professor in Law School, i was his student and research assistant And Sam...I just have to tell people what an amazing CV you have but not only CV.

00:01:46: Your background your story..i think it's just inspiring.

00:01:50: It started as a sad story In the displaced person camp in Germany at Bergen-Belsen.

00:01:56: Your parents were inmates of the concentration camp in Bergen-Belsen.

00:02:00: They survived the Shoah, then they met at a camp – an amazing story and very moving!

00:02:09: You was born there if I remember correctly?

00:02:14: Yes

00:02:14: And your parents managed to get out from Germany and emigrate into the United States, right?

00:02:20: Where you ended up?

00:02:22: in The Bronx.

00:02:23: Yes

00:02:25: as a small kid growing up there how was that?

00:02:29: well we were.

00:02:30: it's always fun to be young.

00:02:32: I like go back There.

00:02:33: i played stickball on the streets And We had A great Public Library I Was able To take advantage of.

00:02:41: So You Were already Get Book Nerd

00:02:43: Back.

00:02:43: Then It Is Always a book nerd B Ciflo walk-up, no air conditioning.

00:02:51: My brother and I sharing a couch, a Castro convertible couch And we knew there was only one way to get out of this situation my father's only making you know small money as a factory worker?

00:03:03: My mother is the saleswoman We had do through education for an education

00:03:08: and that's what he did right.

00:03:09: in America United States has been a great place.

00:03:13: still.

00:03:13: Is it great place?

00:03:14: four people at work hard in school.

00:03:17: There's no question about

00:03:17: it.".

00:03:18: So you went to high school, and the Bronx?

00:03:20: I went to High School in Brooklyn...

00:03:21: And Brooklyn!

00:03:23: ...I have a funny story behind us if i may.

00:03:24: Yeah sure.. I'm in junior high school In The Bronx ..and there was a bully.

00:03:30: You know what bullies are.

00:03:32: This bully took three of us and he started playing with our genitalia.

00:03:37: We didn't bring a lawsuit but then we made a mistake.

00:03:40: instead of just complaining to police ,we called up this guy his mother.

00:03:45: I'll show a story.

00:03:47: And we cursed at her and this guy's mother knew the Dean of Students in the junior high school, oh my.

00:03:54: so he calls us in.

00:03:57: He says you better get out of this school because i'm not gonna let you graduate.

00:04:01: That's what he said to us instead of talking to that kid who did bullying.

00:04:07: Um it wasn't sexual by the way.

00:04:08: just didn't make us feel like shit okay?

00:04:10: Feel bad um.

00:04:12: So I said to myself What am I going to do?

00:04:14: I don't want to be in a local high school because i'm In A very poor neighborhood, in the Bronx there were.

00:04:19: There are four examination schools special-school sure city but The only one that would take someone from a public School of the ninth grade was brooklyn technical High School.

00:04:28: so what did you

00:04:28: do?

00:04:29: I live in the bronx on an hour and a half From brooklin.

00:04:32: uh And I go.

00:04:33: every went there

00:04:34: did this everyday

00:04:35: Every single day.

00:04:36: now is at

00:04:36: three hours commuting yes.

00:04:38: And I Was Very active in the school as the editor Of This school paper president of the honor society.

00:04:45: I set up all the mixing dances with all girls.

00:04:48: high schools are very active in this high school, so

00:04:52: and he wanted to throw you also

00:04:53: on The math team.

00:04:54: believe it or not

00:04:56: You want her to throw your anyways?

00:04:57: No no i went To brooklyn tech because they took me In the ninth grade.

00:05:02: okay that's how i end Up in this.

00:05:04: now i get is

00:05:05: so great Because We were doing nineteenth century technology there.

00:05:10: we built that we had foundries we put You know, we built molds for the instrument to go in and pour it into silver or whatever was.

00:05:19: And then we checked out against precision instruments... I was ready be a Stuttgart worker!

00:05:23: Ah yes okay!

00:05:26: But you turned out being one of the

00:05:28: great teaching there?

00:05:29: Great teaching that

00:05:29: you turned out to be their leading scholar in labor employment law of your generation in the United States.

00:05:37: And I think this is not an overstatement, there's almost nobody in labor and employment law on US IMED who doesn't know Samuel S. Traker.

00:05:47: but

00:05:47: you really didn't start as a professor?

00:05:51: No no great scholar.

00:05:52: very lucky one

00:05:53: then from high school

00:05:57: college where unfortunately I was a Marxist for the first two years and asked me why.

00:06:03: Yes,

00:06:04: we all make mistakes right?

00:06:05: I took of course in then German novel during Weimar mainly to be an old girls classroom.

00:06:12: Interesting motivation And

00:06:15: because that got involved in his left wing circles for short period time.

00:06:19: But you came back to your senses and

00:06:21: sent it back into my senses.

00:06:23: Then you graduated at Columbia University.

00:06:26: No, I graduated from Columbia College.

00:06:29: Then I got a special fellowship to go to graduate school in New York state, all expenses paid.

00:06:36: Fantastic!

00:06:37: So i went to the Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations.

00:06:41: I had always had an interest in worker issues.

00:06:44: my father was a worker uh... And so um.. I took my first law course at Cornell because I was taking Marxism before.

00:06:54: you know American Law is too boring but that did my first labor law course there at Cornell I deepened my interest.

00:07:02: And is

00:07:03: this also why you became a lawyer eventually?

00:07:05: Yes, the labor law class that i had...I love the fact we have ideas in law and it's practical!

00:07:13: It not just lift mention work.

00:07:17: And labor employment laws are real life systems

00:07:19: right?!

00:07:20: We all know these.

00:07:21: Also the followers can probably protect themselves.

00:07:22: Business

00:07:23: Law hitting the flesh thats what they call business.

00:07:26: hitting the gazelle shop, hitting a flesh.

00:07:29: I love that part of the practical solving problems.

00:07:33: just loved it.

00:07:34: so you were then another achievement?

00:07:37: The editor-in-chief of the Columbia Law Review.

00:07:41: and for all the followers who are not familiar with the law school system in United States there's some Ivy League schools.

00:07:49: they're their absolute top law schools In the country.

00:07:52: Columbia University and Columbia Law School is one of them and being the editor-in-chief of The Law Review is a great honor, just very few students deserve.

00:08:03: And obviously you did after you graduated?

00:08:07: You then clerked for...

00:08:08: For Harold Leventhal in U.S.

00:08:11: Court of Appeals for DC Circa.

00:08:12: he was the country's leading expert administrative

00:08:15: judge right?

00:08:15: Judge

00:08:16: Harold Leaventhal.

00:08:19: From there I actually worked.

00:08:25: Okay, there is it again with a

00:08:27: union.

00:08:27: the albides sliced strain in me and While I was in this firm.

00:08:33: I applied to justice power on the Supreme Court.

00:08:36: Luckily got that clerkship

00:08:37: supreme court of the United States So they're highest court of The country

00:08:41: score the cash.

00:08:41: not only the constitutional court Of the country also the court of last resort and the federal court system.

00:08:46: right on

00:08:47: federal law.

00:08:47: Yes, the last resort on Federal Law

00:08:49: And those are nine justices, right?

00:08:52: Nine Justices

00:08:53: and They deal With Almost everything, right?

00:08:56: It is not like in Germany where we have labor courts and federal labor court with ten panels Zenata And then we have administrative Court and Federal Administrative Court.

00:09:07: So on so one.

00:09:08: they deal

00:09:08: with everything about that with federal law Mm-hmm They're not a court of first instance although they can be In cases involving disputes between states.

00:09:16: yes the higher master

00:09:18: Constitutional

00:09:19: matters.

00:09:21: It's also a constitutional part of

00:09:22: the constitution, but it all matters with constitutional law.

00:09:25: You know someone gets thrown out of school because they won't sing the Pledge of Allegiance.

00:09:33: Interesting, so

00:09:34: you start in court for first instance then Court of Appeals and then Supreme Court wants to hear it.

00:09:40: The Supreme Court only hears about eight or ninety cases per year

00:09:43: And you actually worked on some of them?

00:09:45: I worked

00:09:46: on something.

00:09:46: What

00:09:46: was your job exactly there?

00:09:48: My job there was to add two jobs.

00:09:51: One is I had a certain number of cases, uh...I would write the benchmark random for Justice Powell.

00:09:56: His name's Lewis.

00:09:57: It wasn't

00:09:57: appointee by President Nixon right?

00:10:00: He was also by the way in Bletchley Park.

00:10:04: he helped break through the German code The Enigma Machine and if you know that Oh

00:10:08: okay

00:10:09: very amazing person

00:10:10: Must be kidding.

00:10:10: i didn't know

00:10:11: that.

00:10:11: No no Very Amazing Person.

00:10:12: Okay You Also Established his own law firm Hunted in Williams, have you heard of that?

00:10:17: Of course.

00:10:18: Virginia

00:10:18: law firm.

00:10:19: Yes the Virginia Law Firm.

00:10:20: Actually

00:10:20: we were actually on lines with them.

00:10:22: We last law firm.

00:10:22: He

00:10:22: organized major businesses Very

00:10:24: proud I didn't know that But he was considered conservative but a moderate conservative

00:10:29: The old fashioned Republican-moderate.

00:10:32: And on race issues he wasn't tainted by this.

00:10:37: Virginia is not always part of deep south.

00:10:39: You know what i mean Sure Um...he went to William & Mary and then Harvard Law School Had a lot respect for The legal system.

00:10:46: Anyway, so basically I'm we're sorry kids would have

00:10:49: called for a career in the judiciary right?

00:10:52: uh looking for justice Powell and before that district court of appeals but instead you became a professor and teacher.

00:11:01: Right

00:11:02: And scholar

00:11:02: our system is different than your system because i was asked.

00:11:08: by the way my colleagues when they were thinking hiring me at New York University.

00:11:12: They had three labor law professors, they didn't need a fourth.

00:11:16: And one person asked me.

00:11:17: so I guess you want to be a judge and You see there's no good answer.

00:11:22: that because say i don't wanna Be a judge it sounds like?

00:11:25: I don't have any respect for the highest position For sale wanted to be judged sounds like overweening ambition.

00:11:30: So he said looked at his face and says not a young man's ambition.

00:11:33: He loved the answer.

00:11:35: I won them over immediately.

00:11:36: fantastic.

00:11:38: in The United States Let's take the federal system first.

00:11:43: You have to be appointed by the president

00:11:45: Maybe for the audience.

00:11:46: there are two court systems in United States Federal Court System, right?

00:11:51: And The state court system.

00:11:52: so all states they've their own code court system.

00:11:55: They also Have a lot of owned State Laws like their host

00:11:58: of

00:11:58: law.

00:11:59: track laws

00:11:59: law is state law of

00:12:01: employment law.

00:12:01: Also my state law

00:12:03: most of us law Is state law.

00:12:06: Then There is the federal court system.

00:12:08: So this is A kind Of net off-courts or network with, of course within the United States.

00:12:14: And sometimes I compare it when i think of Europe just for our followers to really follow here.

00:12:20: Um, imagine we had a European union with a lot of member states and then we have course all our national court systems.

00:12:28: And now you had the european court your uh... court system with three instances on top first instance try court level Court of Appeals and then uh.. Court Of Last Resort.

00:12:40: right but that's not how it works so far in Europe.

00:12:43: In the United States The States Have Responsibility.

00:12:48: many, most of the important areas are private law.

00:12:52: Contract Law.

00:12:53: Quartered Laws.

00:12:55: Inheritance Law.

00:12:56: Employment Law.

00:12:57: they... Lots of Areas They Have.

00:12:59: The Federal Courts Only Exist To Decide Cases That Are Governed By Federal Law Or Cases From Claimants from Two Different States Or From A Different State And A Foreign State Diversity Jurisdiction So They Don't Decide All Cases Coming Out Of States.

00:13:18: courts have their own system, they're on constitution.

00:13:21: They had a court of first instance intermediate court and state supreme court And the only cases to get into this Supreme Court are cases where that are governed by federal law.

00:13:30: All right?

00:13:31: The Federal Constitution is potentially violated or they invoke rights under the Constitution.

00:13:36: Yes, yes That's all he

00:13:38: so when you were saying or

00:13:39: other federal law.

00:13:40: yet

00:13:40: in the federal system the judges are getting appointed Their career judges, more or less like...

00:13:47: They start off as lawyers.

00:13:49: Maybe I hear country.

00:13:51: they sort of his lawyers distinguished lawyers some at times.

00:13:55: We have gotten rid of recently what we see.

00:13:56: it used to be a judicial filibuster that required sixty percent vote to appoint the judge.

00:14:03: unfortunately The Democratic Party got rid of its and now has changed the caliber Of many of the judges that are appointed because now you only need fifty percent plus one

00:14:15: Meaning, you don't need a vast majority.

00:14:17: You know

00:14:17: it's sixty

00:14:18: bipartisan

00:14:19: Sixty.

00:14:20: we have been

00:14:20: so to

00:14:20: say about yes We have a hundred hundred votes hundred senators.

00:14:25: they decide on The judge is president points and they have be confirmed by the Senate.

00:14:29: Yes And under the old system You needed sixty senators.

00:14:33: So you had to have... so,

00:14:34: you'd make sure that there was

00:14:36: a

00:14:36: candidate who would find the majority of vast majority and more like a centrist?

00:14:42: Well likely!

00:14:43: Someone who will be accepted by most people on both sides

00:14:46: of the aisle Like Louis Bell.

00:14:48: Exactly We've lost that because this judicial filibuster is gone

00:14:56: Meaning now everybody with the majority.

00:15:00: can

00:15:01: We

00:15:01: pick the judges.

00:15:02: There'll

00:15:02: be an investigation and tearing, but at the end of day we picked a judge's...

00:15:06: Well let's talk more about you Sam okay?

00:15:09: But this was very interesting excursion fantastic I was looking for that term.

00:15:17: You did not become a Judge!

00:15:19: You instead became a professor in one of the top law schools Of The Country which is NYU nowadays.

00:15:26: At least Was it back then already

00:15:28: I had a year at Columbia, but i started out in New York University.

00:15:32: Okay and been there since nineteen seventy nine.

00:15:35: So i'm one of the old timers they're.

00:15:38: And um i've been very lucky have also practiced law throughout my career.

00:15:44: Starting off that union side firm was of counsel to them.

00:15:47: uh...and then i Was of counsel on management side firms as well.

00:15:51: yes so i've had an almost Schizophrenic because im an academic.

00:15:57: you know i am a lift mensch.

00:15:59: I'm also a lawyer.

00:16:01: You know, so...I am a little bit schizophrenic.

00:16:03: Yes What do you prefer?

00:16:05: On the management side or on the union employee's side?

00:16:08: Or does it depend on the case?

00:16:10: Depends on your case.

00:16:15: What i like is problem solving But litigation is big part of this system as well.

00:16:22: Do still lot of litigation cases?

00:16:25: I did before last four five years no more And so I'm not doing enough counsel work anymore.

00:16:32: The litigation case is direct contact, arbitrations, mediations...I enjoyed it very much and enjoy the practical side- I am glad that i was able to do it.

00:16:44: So now im basically doing other things.

00:16:46: you know expert witness work consulting work.

00:16:50: Sure!

00:16:51: I take a lot of pro bono Employee cases now and

00:16:55: to actually round up your resume.

00:16:56: So yeah, I'm gonna say you did not only testify in Congress as an expert witness on Legislation probably right labor law reform or was it so long ago?

00:17:06: Also court reform

00:17:07: court reform.

00:17:08: my

00:17:08: first book is on the Supreme Court And helping it manage better its stockage.

00:17:13: but you also met The President of the United States right

00:17:16: we had a conference In Florence mm-hmm third way Conference that NYU is part of it.

00:17:24: We, NYU has a an estate in Florence called La Pietra used to be owned by Harold Acton very famous whatever he was, Estete.

00:17:35: He wasn't a steep believed in beauty and So we're gonna conference on this.

00:17:39: And that's where I met president Clinton and met Tony Blair there uh?

00:17:44: and Tony Blair his wife i gotta tell you funny vignette if i may sure she sent my daughter to get autographs.

00:17:52: autographs first for our housekeeper Alma, an autograph also from my wife who wasn't there.

00:17:58: My late wife.

00:18:00: and then I sent her up again to get a photograph of herself.

00:18:03: And Tony Blair says Hannah!

00:18:06: I've done an autographed for your housekeeper An autograph.

00:18:10: see you mother when is it gonna be your turn?

00:18:14: And Then everyone has gone only Cherie Blair and W Blair and three Italian waiters because we're in Florence.

00:18:23: Sure, he then spent... I kid you not it was there the next twenty-five minutes talking to these three italian waiters.

00:18:29: He's a great retail politician as is Bill Clinton.

00:18:33: Bill Clinton looks into your eyes.

00:18:36: He gives you fifty seconds of undivided attention.

00:18:41: Trust me even your own mother has given you fifty second of undivided attention.

00:18:47: Ten years later he remembers everything that was said.

00:18:50: Did you make this experience?

00:18:53: Yes, I made the experience and as i told my late wife at that time even if I felt attracted to him.

00:19:00: This also applied to a couple of other people potentially but let's not get into it too much.

00:19:06: He was very attractive retail politician

00:19:09: Very charismatic indeed.

00:19:12: Well Sam I mean, it is really interesting.

00:19:15: You're staying currently in Munich right?

00:19:16: We can disclose this to our audience.

00:19:19: if you spend your sabbatical semester... I

00:19:22: spent five months!

00:19:23: ...in

00:19:23: Germany and you have been to Berlin.

00:19:25: Yes we also

00:19:27: went to Poland together for Asia.

00:19:31: actually right Slovenia as well right?

00:19:34: That's true And

00:19:35: we went to Prague for a short stay

00:19:38: Exactly but you are really fond of Germany.

00:19:40: I can tell the audience, and he probably told you once in a while.

00:19:48: When we first met... ...and your story about being born in Bergen-Belsen was telling me that my father helped to build the German Autobahn as an inmate!

00:19:59: You said it with a smile but even made fun of him.

00:20:02: And then you didn't want me to feel uncomfortable?

00:20:05: Even though i have to admit It was really an interesting experience for me.

00:20:09: We didn't know each other, right?

00:20:11: And as a German this feels different.

00:20:13: if someone tells you the story You're sitting in front of write is something else than reading it into history books and I was deeply impressed by that.

00:20:22: how you Immediately said how do like Germany and how your admire Germany and That your big Germany fan, right How come?

00:20:30: what's it always the case?

00:20:31: never.

00:20:32: my parents, you know terribly treated by Germany And they had terrible lives and I blame Germany for it.

00:20:40: So, in high school we have a choice between French and German.

00:20:42: It took French not German so wasn't always the case but came here In nineteen ninety-three that came to Frankfurt's.

00:20:50: then i think was also at I Think in Dusseldorf basically?

00:20:54: Had a question research questions about Difference between the wage that the unions negotiate and collect a bargaining, And the wage people in better companies actually get.

00:21:07: So it was research.

00:21:08: but I love Frankfurt!

00:21:10: I found out German people were really confronting their past... In eighteen different ways than Frankfurt.

00:21:18: so they changed my view of Germany there during this trip.

00:21:21: now It's been confirmed several times

00:21:24: Okay interesting And really inspiring to be honest, and I hope just very much that this will actually have an effect on also our resilience in our democracy.

00:21:41: Right?

00:21:41: This kind of thinking back off the power

00:21:45: challenge?

00:21:45: now there's no question about it as are many other countries.

00:21:48: i put my money on germany though.

00:21:50: thank you for some money on german cars.

00:21:52: yeah

00:21:53: Your word and God's ear.

00:21:55: I think what says, right?

00:21:56: That

00:21:57: is where you say...

00:21:58: And

00:21:59: he wants to give some advice!

00:22:01: I

00:22:01: don't know who are talking about that.

00:22:04: He isn´t even there for your audience.

00:22:06: He is pointing at our producer.

00:22:07: by the way

00:22:11: What

00:22:11: did you find peculiar in Germany or interesting Or maybe even weird or silly?

00:22:19: I know your wife struggled with Amazon packages who couldn't get the liver directly to doorman, right?

00:22:26: This is probably different.

00:22:28: You always live at doorman but it's very interesting that uh... The package has come into a building and if you're not in they ring everyone else on the building And thats'a high level of trust.

00:22:39: i guess It an area of inefficiency there could be improved upon.

00:22:44: So that was interesting.

00:22:45: Uh..the strength of the catholic church here.

00:22:49: We have strong religions in the United States as well, but a major office building would not be closed on religious holiday.

00:22:56: It just wouldn't happen.

00:22:57: But I know that at Otto Otto The same industry again out of your streaks

00:23:07: Autostraße.

00:23:09: The place shuts down on a Catholic holiday?

00:23:13: Even the gym closes now!

00:23:17: Not our gyms, most gyms

00:23:19: they are open actually...

00:23:22: That building closed then.

00:23:23: that's very unusual because I actually walked there to work and the places shut closed.

00:23:28: i never would have thought about

00:23:29: it.

00:23:29: It is so interesting.

00:23:29: do you get from abroad sometimes When seeing them through your guests eyes suddenly

00:23:39: right

00:23:39: that you don't realize.

00:23:40: before the Amazon thing was one thing The other thing was I think when do i remember?

00:23:48: And you were wondering why the streets are so empty and the offices also empty.

00:23:53: I said, well it's just Easter break!

00:23:56: Then a couple of days later... You came to me saying Why is everything so empty?

00:24:00: It was still an Easter break.

00:24:01: Is that two weeks' Easter break or

00:24:03: what?!

00:24:03: Yes it is!

00:24:06: What does the English term for Kingston mean?

00:24:10: Pentecost.

00:24:11: Exactly, the pentecost holidays it was the same!

00:24:13: There's so many holidays here Just

00:24:14: year.

00:24:15: on our way to the studio I said oh cool we're getting a parking slot because its vacation time right?

00:24:21: So you must be thinking all Germans are always on vacations.

00:24:23: And i think is great.

00:24:25: Yes It IS great You have all this leisure time.

00:24:27: Yes It is terrific.

00:24:29: The question just... Is that different from United States?

00:24:34: Well We don't shut down buildings the way do.

00:24:37: Oh, they're always open in your office building.

00:24:39: How

00:24:39: many weeks of break to American workers?

00:24:42: Employees white collar employees or professors?

00:24:46: two weeks

00:24:47: Two weeks per year usually.

00:24:48: that

00:24:48: is

00:24:48: all how the act not the.

00:24:50: I'm not talking about academics now.

00:24:51: sure no

00:24:52: academics might be essential

00:24:53: professionals like yourself.

00:24:55: They have more and take more if you can best for a few three weeks.

00:25:00: okay That's not allowed huh Interesting.

00:25:04: And so there's a different view of leisure time here, which my wife and I love it here but it stopped that way in the U.S.. I think

00:25:10: a friend on mine once said well uh... The Germans they work to make living and the Americans They live-to-work.

00:25:18: That's

00:25:18: something maybe

00:25:20: Maybe a little

00:25:20: bit German.

00:25:21: you know Mox Weber said.

00:25:22: Now the capitalism flourished in Germany because of the Protestant ethic.

00:25:26: So i'm sure you still have the workout thick.

00:25:29: What else did you realize is different?

00:25:32: You know a little about German labor and employment law.

00:25:34: I mean, your contact with the couple of Labor and Employment Lawyers... ...you have published also about comparative law issues.

00:25:42: We as you now we have germination protection.. ..we are very protective of employees here in Germany.

00:25:51: In Germany, there is the notion that in US it's all higher and fire.

00:25:55: That super easy to lay off people because... And you said yourself to me once, eighty percent of worst cause roundabout give-and take is subject to employment at will, meaning they can more or less get laid off any time.

00:26:09: But we also cannot go to work tomorrow and are not in breach of contract because technically speaking I remember from my contract class there was very often not even an employed one.

00:26:23: but that's a different topic.

00:26:24: A doctrinal one we don't want to get into now!

00:26:28: Is it easy for the United States?

00:26:30: It isn't practical matter because there are many different ways.

00:26:36: Now, look if you have an employee who isn't let's say he is a white male under the age of forty.

00:26:48: it pretty easy to fire him now even him.

00:26:52: You would want to have some basis for firing them Because

00:26:56: but your own needed by law right employment as well means?

00:26:58: You don't need any reasons

00:26:59: I understand But has a practical matter big for example unemployment compensation.

00:27:06: You have to pay unemployment for this person, so if it's misconduct you don't have to be on employment and that's a factor as well.

00:27:15: A company does not want to know.

00:27:17: someone who fires people arbitrarily is going affect morale in the workforce.

00:27:23: So its not something companies do generally.

00:27:28: Now sometimes they do because sometimes there are supervisors who doesn't how manage.

00:27:33: It's not the employees fault.

00:27:35: The supervisors, you know deficiency and there might be a wrongful dismissal.

00:27:40: But this happens all the time also in Germany by way.

00:27:44: but uh-but it.

00:27:45: There are many exceptions to employment.

00:27:46: of will I likened into a chocolate chip cookie even though the employment wheel is the is that is the grain?

00:27:53: The chocolate chips?

00:27:54: or what your teeth get into and and and so

00:27:57: That's the one that tastes well, right?

00:28:00: Yes.

00:28:00: And employers have to be mindful of that and your HR departments will be mindful because... Can

00:28:06: you elaborate on some exceptions maybe and give us some examples?

00:28:10: You have contract exceptions because there are implied contracts.

00:28:12: arguments we can make as well.

00:28:16: You have discrimination laws which prohibit race discrimination in gender sex discrimination and national origin discrimination, you have also the disability laws.

00:28:32: And by those these laws are not just federal but they're on each of this.

00:28:34: almost each in states have more protection.

00:28:37: uh...and many of these statutes a very nuanced know where their written.

00:28:42: so what's?

00:28:43: it was a disability.

00:28:44: now there are some disabilities that we no or disabilities not debatable.

00:28:49: But What if I'm Just having problems with

00:28:53: focus

00:28:55: huh?

00:28:56: With focus.

00:28:57: That we call it neurodiverse nowadays.

00:28:59: Exactly,

00:29:00: now I have neurological diseases.

00:29:01: so yeah people don't understand this.

00:29:04: i've been advising someone who refuses to make a disability claim because he's embarrassed and said that Don't be embarrassed these are the claims.

00:29:12: they're recognized.

00:29:13: So you could get determination declared unlawful?

00:29:16: And maybe also remedied.

00:29:18: yes if

00:29:19: You can

00:29:20: prove when he says at

00:29:22: the termination was based on reasons that goes back to the disability?

00:29:28: Well, yes.

00:29:30: Obviously if you can prove it.

00:29:32: there's a reason I have to do is recognize this ability.

00:29:34: but what if he just haven't adequately documented his lack of focus?

00:29:40: You let him go!

00:29:43: We give like ministerial bonuses for all our staff even though we shouldn't because they're an implicit statement good performance.

00:29:54: So, we've got a person who's got this ability.

00:29:56: He hasn't been counseled on it in any way shape or form and now you fire him.

00:30:00: That is good case for a plaintiff lawyer.

00:30:02: Oh really?

00:30:02: Yes

00:30:02: It Is!

00:30:04: So why?

00:30:05: because its hard to get rid of American cases.

00:30:10: We have civil jury And

00:30:13: meaning

00:30:14: that twelve people at least might decide the fate Not a professional.

00:30:19: Unlike, uh...a professional judge who are trained lawyer.

00:30:23: Professional Judge will be there to make sure the case should go to a jury because the jury only decides disputed questions of fact.

00:30:32: Also The Judge will instruct on the juror.

00:30:34: So

00:30:34: they would for instance To stay in the hypothetical Of yours.

00:30:38: They Would Decide On Whether This Individual In Question Has A Disability In Fact Or not?

00:30:45: The jury, yes.

00:30:46: If it's one of the questions?

00:30:47: Yes!

00:30:48: But...the law would be shaped by the instruction and instructions are quite nimble if you know what I mean.

00:30:55: And

00:30:56: we all know.

00:30:56: how is that someone tells about your laws right?

00:31:00: Ask three people afterwards then they will tell different stories

00:31:04: for us.

00:31:04: Basically you have to think was this person fairly treated as a practical matter?

00:31:09: whatever judges' instructions or the judge says this your feelings cannot enter into there some other stuff.

00:31:15: But they're going to tell you how that, uh-they feel about the way the employee was treated.

00:31:19: So there's a very high premium on HR departments in handling this stuff

00:31:24: and it actually takes a long time until you get to a jury?

00:31:27: Actually

00:31:27: right yes not all cases got away.

00:31:28: maybe

00:31:29: explain this procedure little because I get the feeling every time i mention litigation or court proceedings through an american client They getting nervous say well let's pay a big severance and make this go away.

00:31:43: And I always wonder why.

00:31:44: or back in the days, i've always wondered why?

00:31:47: Well we have very efficient proceedings.

00:31:49: right there's a termination three weeks after you meet in front of a judge You try to get this settled.

00:31:54: if not The whole thing is probably done In the first instance between six months and one year Which can be long time.

00:32:03: but how long does it take for an American plaintiff or company for that matter on the other side to get actually in front of a jury.

00:32:13: Takes longer than you think, if-if the claimant is well represented there's going be very significant motion practice.

00:32:21: we have a very ample pretrial discovery process.

00:32:25: Interrogatories questions they have been answered.

00:32:27: document production

00:32:28: so you can ask all those kind of questions

00:32:30: electronic document production deposition the company decision-makers to your office, to depose them on oaths.

00:32:41: That's what we see in TV shows and television right?

00:32:45: When they actually try destroy witnesses at a conference room already before they go to trial.

00:32:51: I

00:32:51: usually don't try to destroy them but just get them say stupid things that i can use for my summary paper.

00:33:01: But sure

00:33:02: you do.

00:33:04: Sometimes

00:33:05: they're with friends like you.

00:33:06: You don't need enemies anymore,

00:33:07: right?

00:33:07: I'm not trying to scare them if i scare them and say nothing.

00:33:11: but So the whole idea of this motion practice The theory behind it is It'll promote settlement mm-hmm And uh...it's fair because Both sides know what the other side has.

00:33:25: I'm Not sure understand that fairness concept, but that's That's.

00:33:28: that's quite what it is.

00:33:29: but As a practical matter, it's used by company lawyers, defense lawyers to try and create paper basis for telling the judge no jury should be called because there is not legitimate issue of fact.

00:33:46: And this is because they don't trust the jury?

00:33:48: The employers... Because they think that the jurors are probably biased or just too big risk to take?

00:33:53: Yes!

00:33:54: It both one those two factors.

00:33:55: yes either bias In employment cases, you want to be very careful who's on the jury because they all think.

00:34:03: They know a lot of people have been fired even though they don't know the basis for any those things that watch television electronic media social media.

00:34:13: well it's the same with me.

00:34:15: I mean if i go to party and tell them my represent employers there like oh

00:34:20: You are real value.

00:34:20: if I tell them.

00:34:21: I represent employees and the great guy, right?

00:34:23: Which I don't.

00:34:24: so i'm always The bad guy.

00:34:26: yes

00:34:27: anyway That's the general notion.

00:34:28: of course people can actually also different differentiate.

00:34:31: the judge has some control because only cases that involve Legitimate disputed issues a fact go to the jury.

00:34:38: but you know different judges have different Political orientations as you will prove.

00:34:45: And so we have.

00:34:47: they mentioned the decline of judicial filibuster, but now it's possible for the majority party to have judges confirmed.

00:34:55: And so we are going to get President Biden-for example had a lot people on The Federal Bench.

00:35:02: Now with the plaintiff orientation within the legal aid society orientation has changed.

00:35:08: So that orientation is gonna affect how you think about these issues as an argument which adds to the uncertainty.

00:35:17: If a claimant is well represented and he's smart, knows how to reach agreement get settlements for his client.

00:35:29: And in our system you don't have to take clients.

00:35:33: You'll only take the case that either requires your do no work or make money contingency fair cases

00:35:40: Or a success fee

00:35:42: Yes!

00:35:42: Or cases That you know will yield alot of money with some effort And you're hoping to get a settlement without a trial.

00:35:50: But, you want some trials because... You have to develop street credibility as a claimant lawyer?

00:35:55: Let's assume now at hypothetical there is case let say A black lesbian woman being terminated She represented by good high profile lawyer.

00:36:14: The lawyer brings the case To court letter of complaint and everything.

00:36:20: And then on this whole machinery starts working, right?

00:36:23: Like with interrogatories their positions stuff like that.

00:36:27: jury selection is also part of it.

00:36:29: Right you still have to select and pick the jury before You have

00:36:33: one papers.

00:36:34: emotions didn't win for defense.

00:36:36: Yes

00:36:37: yes okay there's all kind Of motions.

00:36:39: The defense tries To get the course the case dismissed or at least not Get the jury decide over It and so On.

00:36:48: Can the judge decide just to say, well there is no jury?

00:36:51: So-called Bench try.

00:36:52: No we

00:36:53: have a constitutional right To a civil jury or maybe it's only country in The world.

00:36:57: We took It from the British.

00:36:59: British don't Have it any more except in defamation

00:37:01: because they Don't have A constitution.

00:37:03: That's what I write exactly.

00:37:05: There's an Only in Defamation Cases.

00:37:07: Mm-Hmm Does do the British habit and

00:37:09: Isn't their Threshold?

00:37:10: when it Comes to the amount of Controversy

00:37:12: for Jury?

00:37:13: know yeah for

00:37:14: jury now Civil Jury

00:37:15: it has to be case involving bonafide dispute on material facts.

00:37:20: Okay,

00:37:21: so no way around the jury.

00:37:23: unless there are a couple of motions and the judge grants those motions

00:37:27: you can convince the judge that is not legitimate factual dispute.

00:37:31: okay now we're in court.

00:37:33: Now were infront of a jury.

00:37:35: So what's the worst-case scenario here?

00:37:37: Let say this woman made like six seven thousand dollars a month.

00:37:43: right well paid

00:37:45: And so it's a thousand years.

00:37:46: Yeah,

00:37:47: something about that

00:37:48: yeah

00:37:49: and she was there with the company for ten years.

00:37:52: um She had always good reviews or decent reviews?

00:37:56: You know how it works right.

00:37:57: my clients they tell me sometimes They would like to terminate an employee.

00:38:02: uh I asked them do you have documentation?

00:38:05: we have warning letters.

00:38:06: they said no because if We do this kind of stuff During the employment relationship while we still think, We can make this work.

00:38:13: Then everything is gone.

00:38:14: You know like so they typically have good reviews got intermediate reference letters and so on but Still They say performance Is really low.

00:38:21: Let's assume The case Like that.

00:38:23: What would be a potential outcome?

00:38:25: Just by talking in worst-case scenarios here making

00:38:28: hundred thousand A year should then been there ten years.

00:38:31: you Have no documentation It's just a Performance Case.

00:38:37: You better give her some money.

00:38:39: I'd say at least a quarter of a million, maybe half-a-million.

00:38:42: Interesting!

00:38:43: Why?

00:38:43: Because those two juries will have some black people on the jury and get more than that because they'll get punitive damages...

00:38:50: What is punitive damage?

00:38:51: Maybe you can elaborate

00:38:53: about it.

00:38:53: We have compensatory damages.

00:38:56: so that involves economic loss.

00:38:59: It also could involve depending upon law emotional distress

00:39:04: Emotional distress meaning this was very painful Psychologically.

00:39:09: Yes, so you suffered some psychological loss it's hard to prove.

00:39:14: Historically these claims were viewed with enormous skepticism.

00:39:18: Is a doctrine in common law that?

00:39:20: You can't claim for emotional distress unless there is also physical impact.

00:39:24: over the course of time These doctrines have been liberalized softened So emotionless stress and someplace as its capped some places some statutes not kept.

00:39:36: Those are compensatory damages.

00:39:37: They're trying to put you back in a position You would have been in had the illegality not occurred.

00:39:41: mm-hmm.

00:39:42: There's also the possibility of punitive damages in civil cases.

00:39:46: In other words, it's not some criminal case here which on these civil cases It's another piece of paper that goes through jury under instructions.

00:39:54: do think Are your warning?

00:39:56: Also punitive damage.

00:39:57: is

00:39:57: they typically do this or can only do if its intentional?

00:40:01: Or

00:40:01: yes intentional and there'll be instructions on that.

00:40:05: But again For what the plaintiff lawyers gonna try to do is convince The court that this company needs to get a kick in it.

00:40:12: and he asks mm-hmm.

00:40:14: It's not enough to give for this person making so.

00:40:16: there

00:40:16: was a policy Reason or possible policy rationale To those punitive damages.

00:40:23: theorists about enforcing the law also

00:40:25: gotta be careful.

00:40:26: Yes, theoretically neoretically but if the per you know say these these mass tort cases You Know with chemicals in the water, that no one knew about.

00:40:38: Those are easy cases.

00:40:39: for bio-nubes It's harder on employment case but it can happen.

00:40:44: It does happen.

00:40:45: The client is in big trouble because a client let this case go to a jury even though the client hired top notch firm Germany and they have a fourteen million dollar verdict.

00:40:59: That general counsel was not long.

00:41:01: That show, maybe you look for an academic job.

00:41:04: So that's a good one right?

00:41:07: Make another ten million

00:41:08: is very hard to get an academic jobs in the United States I can imagine.

00:41:13: same here yes Same year.

00:41:16: Okay We have now The punitive damages covered and let us Now assume the hypothetical Is little different.

00:41:25: Maybe this saying

00:41:26: there would be punitive Damages in case

00:41:28: it could be.

00:41:29: but The hypothetical is now that there's a promotion policy... ...that statistically disfavors certain group of people.

00:41:43: Maybe women, maybe with an ethnic background protected by statute.

00:41:58: and this doesn't work intentionally but it just on the papers, right?

00:42:03: The policy has this impact.

00:42:06: This disparate impact and I think it's actually also a concept...

00:42:09: It is called disparate-impact.

00:42:11: And what is different there?

00:42:15: Punitive damages not so much.

00:42:16: or is that possible?

00:42:19: Less likely?

00:42:22: but you don't have to prove intent.

00:42:29: President Trump has tried to knock out his theory in terms of government claims, but still the private lawsuits under these dashes.

00:42:39: And so typically say you have a policy that says I want my workers to speak English.

00:42:46: there is such called English only policies?

00:42:48: Well That's hard to challenge on intentional grounds.

00:42:54: You're prejudiced against people because they don't language.

00:42:57: you might be able to have national origin claim maybe But it may also lead

00:43:01: good Good reason

00:43:02: to ask for that, right?

00:43:03: Yes.

00:43:04: But you have a claim.

00:43:05: this impacts people That are Spanish speakers And it's not reasonably tailored policy.

00:43:14: The policy could be something like You have to speak in the dominant language In English if your on public contact job or reception.

00:43:23: That would okay but its flat man and those used to be the kinds of lawsuits government will bring.

00:43:29: Let us now assume you potentially in this company over the years, five hundred one thousand two-thousand employees who have been potentially impacted or applicants we've potentially being impacted by this policy.

00:43:45: What can you do?

00:43:46: Well applicant is very hard so there might be a problem with the question they're using.

00:43:55: It's very hard for applicants to sue even though in theory vested interests or focused interest on the employer, right now they're applying to millions of people.

00:44:08: They adjust their virtual applications.

00:44:11: so it's very hard.

00:44:11: although there have been some lawsuits now

00:44:13: and not even as a class action?

00:44:16: There is good

00:44:17: work at.

00:44:17: the class

00:44:18: actions has been certified in artificial intelligence case in United States but slow mm-hmm he could.

00:44:26: So let me just say something about class actions.

00:44:28: In the United States, we have very liberal class action practice not just in federal courts but also it and many of the states.

00:44:35: um in general you bring a lawsuit on behalf of group of people.

00:44:42: uh You may have two or three lead people that you've signed up But the other people haven't even been consulted.

00:44:48: And then the whole question is whether the class will be certified.

00:44:51: Lots of paperwork discovery and all that.

00:44:54: there are requirements for certification.

00:44:56: But if you know, the plaintiff lawyers not a pig comes up with a smart.

00:45:00: Let me give an example Walmart.

00:45:03: The plaintiff lawyer is very able lawyer extremely able lawyers on my board.

00:45:08: He brought that case on behalf of all of Wal-Mart which I thought was a stupid idea.

00:45:11: What did truth it matter?

00:45:12: Is he lost in the Supreme Court?

00:45:16: He said there were subjective decision making going on throughout walmart.

00:45:19: mm-hmm.

00:45:21: You lost to the supreme court but since then he's had major class actions in different localities.

00:45:28: Instead of suing Walmart entirely as a corporation, he sues various decision-making centers within Walmart and

00:45:35: He always sues then on behalf of a certain number of

00:45:39: people employees

00:45:40: the

00:45:40: class action practice.

00:45:41: Do they have to consent that?

00:45:43: No not uh... Not generally They.

00:45:46: there will be a certification at one point some points And they're given notice an opt out rights.

00:45:54: meaning if they They are being notified publicly, or they're getting a letter.

00:45:59: Or you have to read the newspaper and then see oh I'm part of this class And i don't want to be represented by them because there also bound By any outcome right?

00:46:07: Settlement verdicts and so on Yes!

00:46:10: Then they have to actively opt out

00:46:12: Right?!

00:46:12: But they dont actively opt-out Because theyre

00:46:15: getting money.

00:46:16: Money is coming your way

00:46:18: Without doing anything.

00:46:19: You

00:46:19: gotta read these stuff anyway.

00:46:20: So they don't opt out, but there could be... There've been cases where serious opt-outs changing the whole settlement.

00:46:26: Usually it's attacks on settlements and less action.

00:46:29: settlement is a hearing.

00:46:31: you know their professional their firms that specialize in these class action settlements

00:46:35: And they're getting thirty to forty percent of the settlement.

00:46:38: meaning If the settlement is one hundred million euros, dollars of course.

00:46:44: The equivalent of euros.

00:46:45: meanwhile almost a

00:46:47: dollar was equivalent

00:46:48: to... That's different discussion

00:46:50: in my experience!

00:46:51: I'm bad for you now at that moment being here Germany can imagine but then it's like thirty to forty million in fees.

00:47:00: But of course, one has to say they invest also in those cases.

00:47:04: They have been investing the case for five years right?

00:47:06: Like putting reissues on that and not invoicing once.

00:47:09: Right.

00:47:10: Not invoising ones

00:47:11: but still a good outcome with their

00:47:12: good outcome from the firm and through people.

00:47:15: now how

00:47:15: do they finance?

00:47:16: by the way?

00:47:16: How did you fund it With your own money?

00:47:18: Do we have banks

00:47:20: or

00:47:20: is there private equity going then?

00:47:23: Historically they funded themselves uh...but Now There's a litigation funding movement And most of the courts have accepted it, so now we have investors in it.

00:47:34: It's a business huh?

00:47:34: Common law did not like this.

00:47:36: but um... We're moving that direction and I think its right!

00:47:41: As long as lawyers are still using their legal judgment.

00:47:45: But it looks bad.

00:47:47: So to sum it up Yes there is employment at will as a general doctrine.. ..but There Is A

00:47:54: LOT OF

00:47:55: CHOCOLATE CHIPS IN THE COOKIE meaning a lot of exemptions.

00:47:59: I'm always stuck on the chips.

00:48:01: Exactly, so if you want to let go someone in the United States especially California right?

00:48:07: You better consult a lawyer before that.

00:48:09: In order not

00:48:10: to step into any trust states have adopted California Not completely but program worker laws factor.

00:48:20: we had Stiftungs Foundations are involved and pushing More law in these states.

00:48:26: You're like, you know sure it's

00:48:28: political activism and all

00:48:29: his own.

00:48:30: uh, you don't place like they wouldn't expect.

00:48:33: I'm also very pro-work for laws.

00:48:35: So is this the reason why most German auto companies go to the south of America?

00:48:41: To Tennessee and South Carolina

00:48:44: have to talk about that

00:48:45: Spartan Berg BMW or

00:48:47: a?

00:48:47: go there in part even though them i think BMW has recognized union in spartan work.

00:48:53: but They go there because it's less likely to have a serious union drive And the and they had workers that are more content Workers.

00:49:03: They're happy to have these jobs.

00:49:06: So, that's part of as well.

00:49:09: But you know I make a joke That the south lost the battle in The eighteen sixties

00:49:17: was a eighteen sixes wasn't civil war right?

00:49:18: or?

00:49:19: but he won the war.

00:49:21: Why dad?

00:49:22: because of Title VII, the Civil Rights Act.

00:49:25: Now the whites no longer had this ability to require they'd be paid more.

00:49:30: if you have work with black workers who opened up the labor

00:49:32: market...

00:49:34: That

00:49:34: was back at Jim Crow, practice so-to say.

00:49:36: The

00:49:37: unions wouldn't accept Black employees and then the employer could only hire some

00:49:43: union

00:49:43: members or whatever?

00:49:44: Yes it did.

00:49:46: So that is a reality.

00:49:47: So Title VII really unlocked the labour market in his own.

00:49:51: And the second reason

00:49:52: made labor cheaper,

00:49:53: right?

00:49:54: Well available qualified labor.

00:49:56: I don't want to say they make them cheaper.

00:49:57: They took advantage of the qualified available workers and instead of allowing a certain action

00:50:02: which is practically

00:50:03: national bullshit Yeah

00:50:04: But but nicer put i'm not

00:50:06: gonna agree with you on that one.

00:50:07: What's The Second Reason They Want To War air conditioning?

00:50:11: yeah That there was something actually we could actually need here as well in this studio.

00:50:15: You might have noticed it.

00:50:16: We Don't Wear Jacket Today.

00:50:19: But in all fairness, it's probably difficult today

00:50:22: because

00:50:23: this is one of the hottest days here.

00:50:26: It was fantastic talking to you about those topics and even though I have had these conversations before when I went into your class and learned a lot from you... ...I've still taken away some news for me and got behind that You'll still be having a couple more days in Germany.

00:50:47: Are you looking already back to, are you looking forward to go back to New York?

00:50:51: I'd prefer it be here for a couple more months.

00:50:53: Yes

00:50:53: but you have to leave in the coming weeks right

00:50:56: now

00:50:58: and there's a couple of takeaways maybe three take-aways from Germany.

00:51:04: You would actually take the United States And also pieces of advice that we like to give us Germans being An American looking to Germany from the outside, now a little from the inside?

00:51:21: It's hard to give advice for other countries.

00:51:24: So I'm very reluctant to do this.

00:51:27: I think Germany is doing well and they have to worry about their right wing or immigration policies...I don't know if you want hear that but If your going to have immigrants then integrate them into workforce Other than they're doing taxi driver jobs, so I think that's a serious question.

00:51:49: The fact you have all this leisure is good thing?

00:51:52: It's wonderful!

00:51:54: I don't know how the government is affording it to what it does but i think its great in doing it.

00:52:00: They need to bring back manufacturing.

00:52:02: Don't allow the silen grid Chinese cars to destroy markets.

00:52:07: You are precision manufacturers of world.

00:52:11: Do we still have this image in the United States?

00:52:14: Yes, I think do.

00:52:16: Keep it!

00:52:17: It's really important and something that I don't believe competitors can take away from you.

00:52:24: With respect to lawyers my advice would be...I know you may disagree with us a little bit.

00:52:29: You'll need to learn how to use AI for sure but don't let AI displace your skills that you need to develop, to be an effective lawyer.

00:52:42: So use it in assistance and not as a substitute for what you do.

00:52:47: this goes across the board-not just legal profession.

00:52:50: That's important.

00:52:53: Any advice to HR people who are having business to attend to?

00:52:59: In United States or investors potentially investing in united states?

00:53:03: think

00:53:03: you have too.

00:53:05: He can't assume That you're going to have a completely frictionless labor market.

00:53:11: Personally union movement is getting stronger Mm-hmm, and they're getting political.

00:53:17: The Republicans had joined Democratic bill in this house To require contracts that I think.

00:53:25: sixty years of bargaining sixty days of bargaining.

00:53:27: So the environment has changed in United States And you have to be risk averse sure you are.

00:53:35: Then so in picking where you're going to have the company based and You know, you have to have strong HR department.

00:53:43: We've a serious issue with sexual harassment.

00:53:46: we've not talked about but Sexual harassment is a problem.

00:53:51: only HR falls down on the job.

00:53:54: They have to take it seriously captain.

00:53:55: wait for lawsuits.

00:53:56: We know there are people in these companies my experience that Take advantage of women in other settings, Christmas parties whatever.

00:54:07: there has to be nipped at the bud because it'll just turn into a cancer very expensive cancer.

00:54:12: so you have to.

00:54:13: Have much more and my view of more proactive HR function in American companies.

00:54:20: And last but not least any advice.

00:54:22: two young talent would you?

00:54:24: I know your son is lawyer too right?

00:54:27: Very successful one by the way.

00:54:29: um Would You Advice your son or your grandson nowadays to choose the legal profession?

00:54:38: Well, you know no profession is perfect.

00:54:41: What's great about a legal profession?

00:54:42: Is what attracted me to it in Cornel The idea if work with ideas and its practical And he gives you a lot of flexibility.

00:54:53: look at Franklin Delano Roosevelt our most successful president.

00:54:56: after Lincoln He almost flunked out of Columbia Law School But he went back guys grades and made something of his life.

00:55:06: The law has that ability for you.

00:55:08: I mean, it's open.

00:55:10: We have lots a law schools in the United States.

00:55:12: doesn't matter which law school You go to.

00:55:14: certainly And

00:55:15: your not afraid of AI?

00:55:16: That AI is taking over all the

00:55:17: jobs.

00:55:18: I think It's not gonna take off all the job as but it's going to require a smarter lawyer To...it can be an assistant.

00:55:24: so i know you love it.

00:55:26: maybe its doing a lot For me..I think As data aggregator A data compiler i think is going to take away the jobs were done by human beings.

00:55:34: I think it takes a way too huge extent, that has in my job i don't like right.

00:55:42: there's a lot of nitty-gritty data collecting and putting together work write and gives me more room flexibility for the real issues at hand to think about strategy and stuff like that, but thats a different discussion.

00:55:57: Maybe we can have

00:55:58: another very beginning... But you have.

00:55:59: develop the skill set, intuitions And if they are just in front of machine giving it answers I think its gonna harm alot.

00:56:08: young talent.

00:56:10: We come out play our little game.

00:56:14: i dont know what i told u before.

00:56:17: It's regular on this podcast That i throw two terms.

00:56:23: You have to decide very fast which term you pick.

00:56:28: Where are your more in favor of?

00:56:30: Go ahead!

00:56:32: Yes, let me just look it up because I really had to take notes for that here.

00:56:38: The first one is easy and i forgot to mention... ...you actually have a joker right?

00:56:44: Let's say you have two jokers, Sam because it´s you

00:56:47: Exactly,

00:56:47: you can skip.

00:56:49: But if don't feel comfortable answering Well, you can use the Joker.

00:56:54: But only two!

00:56:54: Okay?

00:56:57: First one is a lowball right?

00:57:00: Wine or beer?

00:57:01: Beer?

00:57:03: Second not so difficult either German car or Chinese car?

00:57:07: German German car Or American Car?

00:57:12: German

00:57:13: Really?

00:57:13: Why's that?

00:57:15: Until recently the Germans had a fantastic reputation for high-craft work.

00:57:19: Okay,

00:57:20: better than the American cars

00:57:21: agency and precision.

00:57:22: I hope you don't have any american car clients Car company clients here

00:57:26: driving american cars or

00:57:28: the next one?

00:57:28: The next one might be more tricky trump Or jd vans

00:57:34: Skip

00:57:35: skip JD Vans or rubio

00:57:38: Rubio Marco Rubio?

00:57:39: okay

00:57:40: You want to elaborate.

00:57:41: why is it too political?

00:57:43: i think marco rubio Is a more rational person in JD bands And especially on international matters but others as well.

00:57:51: So I think he will bring us back to the more traditional, moderate republicanism.

00:57:56: Next one is an easy one.

00:57:58: Labor law or employment law?

00:58:02: Labor Law is my passion and Employment Law as my future.

00:58:07: Well said but you cheated right!

00:58:09: But your lawyer...I didn't even notice.

00:58:11: almost Amazing New York or California ?

00:58:16: I know New York.

00:58:16: New York

00:58:18: Munich or Berlin?

00:58:20: Munich

00:58:23: We have to tell the audience you're actually staying in.

00:58:26: Staying

00:58:26: here

00:58:26: currently for a couple

00:58:27: of months or two though, that mention is wonderful!

00:58:30: Yes at least it's more residential right?

00:58:32: Yes better place to live

00:58:34: Halloween or Oktoberfest.

00:58:38: I haven't been to oktoberfest into

00:58:39: October fast.

00:58:40: okay we have to change there

00:58:41: but if i were in germany and munich in october i'd go to october fest.

00:58:45: Okay fantastic now Actually i want to see your last Joker.

00:58:49: yeah and democrats are republican

00:58:55: scared

00:58:57: Canada or Mexico?

00:59:00: Thank you, Sam.

00:59:01: It was my great honor having your year.

00:59:03: thank You Daniel

00:59:04: I think you for the visit of this day For illuminating us a little about US employment and labor law And well wish all the best!

00:59:13: Thank you Daniel appreciate it.

00:59:15: Thank you.

00:59:15: I appreciate your friendship.

00:59:18: as i say My father's favorite saying is that I learned from all students.

00:59:21: There are no questions I've learnt From

00:59:23: you.

00:59:26: Thank you.

00:59:27: Hope to see on the next podcast, hope you liked it and next time in German again bye-bye!